Re: Hoth class rebalancing

4
Done, server can enable all the fixes by setting g_hothRebalance to -1 or toggle the changes individually with bitflags: 1 for oassa big bacta, 2 for ohw bacta and e11, 4 for djedi heal 3.

Currently it's set to 0 in the server cfg, so it will have to be manually change via rcon for testing.

Re: Hoth class rebalancing

5
O Assault is now much better, but his damage is pretty low. How about giving him 10% more speed and/or more ammo or Seeker?
O Heavy is still joke. How about making DEMP2 alt fire not destroying rockets so rockets dont explode on your face? This will be nerf for overused Tech on Hoth and it will make both defensive and offensive Heavies more available. Also I would remove bacta and give him 100% speed instead because main objectives - codes and hangar - are about speed.

Re: Hoth class rebalancing

6
Everyone say that I make bad classes but I want to remind that half of attacking classes are still useless. Assault and HW are literally never played.
Assault's damage is too low to compete Jedi or Scout or even Demo. IMO he should have seeker. He can't be faster because he will be too strong on gen obj. Also he needs extra ammo for sure.

How about giving HW feature from Urban so he can rocket jump? He would be useful on 1st obj because he could jump to defenders area. He could jump over obj2 pit. He could be playable on other objectives too. Now when D Tech is played on almost every objective, he is useless.

Since giving attacking Demo shields on spawn is meta, Hoth Demo should be treated the same way?

How about giving Tech stun baton, so he can damage CC?

Should also remove Golan from D Assa on last obj, to prevent spam.

Re: Hoth class rebalancing

7
It's not just grab btw, I too think that O Assa could use some buffs. Right now the only place I sometimes pick it risking being told to just change is 4th obj. I personally lean towards movement buff, but I'm open for anything.

As for O HW, the sad truth is that O HW is utterly useless everywhere, except urban and cargo. I have no idea what could be done apart from copying those designs (but cargo design would obviously not work on hoth). Having a slow, vulnerable class trying to attack something is just a flawed concept imo.

I think demo is fine though.

Re: Hoth class rebalancing

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Situational ≠ useless. These are two completely different things. Situational means it can be used effectively given the right scenario. Useless means it's objectively a complete piece of garbage that serves no purpose whatsoever -- champs that have a 0.000% pick rate like Korri D scout.

O Assault is good for gen(3rd obj) and generally works well throughout the map as an unfreezable projectile DPS (good if you're being raped by a skilled demper). O HW is great at killing data room campers(4th obj) and turrets(1st+2nd+3rd objs). Situational: yes. Useless: no. Situational champs are perfectly fine and should be expected in a class-based game. If you balanced everything so that all 6 champs had a 16⅔% pick rate at every single obj, then all the champs would be too homogeneous and basically interchangeable, completely negating much of the interest in a class-based game. By the way, remember that at these objs where situational champs are viable, other champs have reduced pick rates -- why don't I see anyone saying that O Demo should be buffed for Hoth 2nd obj since he has <1% pick rate at that obj?

Hoth classes are in a good spot now. There are no completely useless classes. The only modifications we've done have just been modest HP/survivability buffs which were sorely needed. If you start doing too much more you will change the flavor and meta of the map.

What siege really needs more than tweaking base classes ad infinitum is more finished+balanced maps. More Urbans, less Yavins.

Re: Hoth class rebalancing

10
Your whole argument is: "class x can be used once a game on single objective so it not useless class, it is class with its niche". Nice sense of reality. Somehow you have no problem with blaming me for shitty design of obj2 on Bespin when you get raped by turrets. Now this will be my answer: "on this obj non-jedi classes have their niche".

O Assault could literally not exist. He doesn't bring any value. On gen obj you can take scout to eleminate tech/dps, you can take jedi to do same. On codes and hangar he is useless. If CC is defended next to spawn he is also useless.

Grab: assault is outdamaged by demo, scout and jedi, and has almost 0% pickratio and no real niche
Duo: there is nothing wrong with him being outdamaged by every other playable class, he has his niche on obj3(meme)
Grab looks at new Urban update and this is what Duo say there: O assault needs a buff; he is currently outclassed by O demo in damage and movement speed and has an almost 0% pick rate.
Nice hypocrisy. You make 100 new mod features to make your classes work/be fun on your map, yet you don't want to update Hoth.

Defending assault: big bacta, extra ammo, golan, mines;
Attacking assault: big bacta, emplaced gun;
Which one is useful? You even refuse to give him extra ammo so he can't even use his *only* weapon efficiently because you lose 50% of ammo before you get to objective. Hoth meta is shit. Shield meta is shit. Hoth is least voted map because: it is not fun to ride demped AT-ST, meta is shit. Yet you prefer to let map die than give it small update.

Same "arguments" against buffing HW. HW is useful on obj4 when:
  • door is not mined and you can launch him
  • codes room is protected(mostly it isn't)
  • you have tech in your team so he clears top from mines
  • you actually get to lift before being raped by tech and assault/demo spaming bombs at you
  • nobody is in top bunker
  • codes room doors open properly
  • mines/thermals don't explode in front of you and your own rocked doesn't kill you
  • enemy tech spamming demp from main doesn't destroy your rocket on your face
  • friendly tech spaming from main/next to you doesn't destroy your rocket on your face

Even if all these points are achieved and you kill that ugly camper, you go back to *meta class* and never play HW again. He is used on one obj and only when codes room is occupied, which mostly doesn't happen.
You don't have any arguments to keep current state. You just keep repeating bullshit about "niche", but it doesn't even exist.
Giving HW no self splash would give him his niche or maybe even make him non-troll pick.
On Obj1: jedis are picked to run to defenders spawns and kill people and protect AT-ST, scouts are picked to kill people also in bunkers. Why not let HW be useful here and let him jump behind trench and kill people there?
On Obj2 he could be actually only gunner(bar scout) that would be useful on this d-stacked objective.
On Obj6 he could actually leave that corridor after lift.
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