Re: Saber Def

11
Black wrote: So if I've got this correct you can change it so that if a Jedi is facing within x degrees of scout block will be 100% (no weakspots) and 0% outside of these angles?

This to me is how saber defence should be. Following this for example saber def 1 can be 10 degrees, def 2 can be 90 degrees, and def 3 can be 160 degrees (random figures which sound about right)?

Yeah exactly, I will try to code something to test it soon (or tell Duo where to do it and get credit for it).

However, I think I should probably let the new system check for 3D view angles instead of just projecting vectors in 2D space. Otherwise it will look weird with a large height difference (for instance a jedi jumping right above you, not looking downards at you but still blocking the shot due to the angle between view vectors being low when projected in 2D, but high in 3D).

Black wrote: It's odd actually I've always found staff to be the hardest to shoot through (it's probably me aiming at the wrong places).

Walking staff animation actually has somewhat good protection.

With the current system, you can tell how vulnerable an animation is by checking the total surface that is being shifted at the back of the collision hitbox (which you can't see w/o my test newmod build unfortunately).

Re: Saber Def

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alpha wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:41 amI think I should probably let the new system check for 3D view angles instead of just projecting vectors in 2D space. Otherwise it will look weird with a large height difference (for instance a jedi jumping right above you, not looking downards at you but still blocking the shot due to the angle between view vectors being low when projected in 2D, but high in 3D).
Good idea, increases the skill cap more. Basically the more accurately you are looking at the guy, the better the block. But couldn't this seem weird though too ingame? I don't think your champ's animation changes depending on where up/down you are looking.

Re: Saber Def

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Duo wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:17 pm
alpha wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:41 amI think I should probably let the new system check for 3D view angles instead of just projecting vectors in 2D space. Otherwise it will look weird with a large height difference (for instance a jedi jumping right above you, not looking downards at you but still blocking the shot due to the angle between view vectors being low when projected in 2D, but high in 3D).
Good idea, increases the skill cap more. Basically the more accurately you are looking at the guy, the better the block. But couldn't this seem weird though too ingame? I don't think your champ's animation changes depending on where up/down you are looking.
Sounds good to me.

Re: Saber Def

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I've put a slightly reworked version of Alpha's approach on the server. We can test it some time. It's currently disabled and can be enabled with g_fixSaberDefense 1. The algorithm is not perfect for reasons I don't care to get into ATM, but it is still better than the current system IMO.

Also, fun fact: pushing a jedi will animation lock him for 1000ms, whereas pulling a jedi will only animation lock him for 400ms. So if you are playing as jedi trying to help your teammate snipe an enemy jedi, pushing is definitely better than pulling.

Re: Saber Def

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Duo wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:01 am Also, fun fact: pushing a jedi will animation lock him for 1000ms, whereas pulling a jedi will only animation lock him for 400ms. So if you are playing as jedi trying to help your teammate snipe an enemy jedi, pushing is definitely better than pulling.
Dude stopped me from making topic about that because tryhard players still don't know that.

Re: Saber Def

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First impressions:

This new system already feels amazing to me. Saber def 3 is now unpenetrable as long as you are more or less facing the enemy scout, thus finally living up to its implied purpose. This just feels amazing. Jedi now truly hard counter scouts, scout is powerless against jedi with def 3, there is no more bullshit "ah well I went scout against a jedi, but whatever, I might get a lucky shot".

I think for level 3 saberdef, the current protection angle is pretty good (73), and definitely feels like what it should have been from the very beginning. I feel the frontal cone of 146 degrees can even allow a jedi to shut down not one, but two enemy scouts, which once again, feels pretty amazing.

The only map we play that has a def 2 jedi class is cargo (d jedi). And that is not a map you usually play scout on. I think if we wanted to retain the original design of the class, his saber defence level should be lowered to 1, but I'm not too bothered by this. The 60 degree cone is pretty decent at shutting down a single scout, but will fail against multiple scouts. We could also try a slightly higher number, but I'd say the angle should definitely not go above 50.

The only class to use def 1 is hoth d jedi. It isn't really easy to test it on hoth though, because d jedi is mostly picked not to counter scouts, but to deal some significant damage to the walker. When we ran around pre pug, the 10 degree cone didn't feel too bad to me, but overall, might be a bit too suspectible. I think, though, that it did capture the spirit of what def 1 should be like: crosshair constantly locked onto enemy scout, or get one shot. I think if def 1 prooves to be not enough, increasing the angle a bit, say to 8 from 5, or maybe 10, should definitely fix any issues it might have.

Overall, I am really satisfied with def 3, that is precisely how it should work, in the given level system. Def 2 also feels great, if someone wanted to make a harder jedi class to play, that is definitely the way to go. Personally, I don't think I would ever make a class with def 1 though, but I don't disagree with the current playstyle of it.

Re: Saber Def

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I think 5 is too low on def 1. When we tested it, I was getting disrupted even though I felt like I was constantly locked onto you. With such a tiny window for blocking, it's possible that on higher ping I wasn't locked onto you accurately enough when you changed direction (according to the server).

Re: Saber Def

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After some feedback, there is agreement that the def 1 angle is too forgiving at long distances. Def 1 angle has been changed back to 5 (was 8). This should make it harder to whore saber block at long distances (Hoth 2nd obj).

Re: Saber Def

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It might be possible to add footshots while people are running, if there is interest. Most of the magic bullshit footshots under the base jka system occurred while people were jumping, etc where the animation didn't accurately portray the hitbox. If people want to try out allowing footshots just on people who are running/walking, I can take a look at adding that in.
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